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Thread: Feedback: Changelog 10/21/2016

  1. #51
    Blue Byte Gamedesign Team BB_Alex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bri0sheje View Post
    Then you should see, from that logic, that Nusala is way less useful than the other ones.

    Let me give you a static point: the current problem, in THIS meta, is that enemy camps with Attack weakest OR with Attack weakest + first strike are very hard to defeat.

    This is due to the fact that attack weakest forces you to either use Recruits / Militia as a wall for cannoneers or, similarly, forces you to be UNABLE to use Mounted Marksmen, Armored Marksmen and Marksmen in your fight.

    Again, taking the real practical example of a camp which is extremely hard to defeat: 100 Sword Masters + 100 Desert Marksmen: Sword masters are a huge wall to defeat, Desert Marksmen have attack weakest and normal initiative, so you either use KNIGHTS as a wall for BESIEGERS (but they won't last just THAT much) and Mounted Swordmen as a wall from Sword Masters or you just have NO other alternatives but to lose about 100 armored marksmen.

    Giving splash damage to armored marksmen won't make any difference whatsoever in most of the relevant cases of the current meta, because no one cares to have splash damage and attack weakest on a normal initiative troup. I can, perhaps, foresee the use of such logic against Giants, but they really are the less powerful fairytale troup, and I can't really think of any unit having Last Strike + Splash Damage + Attack weakest right now, though I might be wrong here.

    In a nutshell, I just can't foresee the utility of Nusala as giving splash damage and flanking to normal initiative units is most of the times useless, because by the time they deal their damage normal enemy units already have dealt a huge amount of damage.
    Yes she might be less usefull against camps with enemy units, which use flanking. She is more usefull for other camps as damage dealer, which reduces the amount of offensive units needed and allows you to take more defesive units with you, if needed.

    The goal is not to make every of those generals equaly usefull against the same "type" of enemy camps. You have issues with such camps, than I recommend you to use Vargus instead of Nusala.

    I want to mention one thing. Allowing Nusalas trait to have influence on units with high initiative, doesn't require to rework the whole classification of units. We just make the effect available for swift units, and it's done.

    This discussion is quite time consuming, right now. So I will make it clear, again. Balancing is not finished yet. The exact effects of the traits those three generals are not set into stone. Every thing can be changed and adjusted, based on results and feedback we get. We will evaluate your feedback, as we always evaluate feedback from players, and this feedback might lead to a change.

    Have fun
    BB_Alex
    Last edited by BB_Alex; 26.10.16 at 14:18.

  2. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by BB_Alex View Post
    The goal is not to make every of those generals equaly usefull against the same "type" of enemy camps. You have issues with such camps, than I recommend you to use Vargus instead of Nusala.
    Don't misunderstand me, I don't have issues with such camps, this is the only camp type, along with First strike + attack weakest only units, that actually requires tons of troups, the rest of the camps is fair or not expensive already.

    Quote Originally Posted by BB_Alex View Post
    This discussion is quite time consuming, right now. So I will make it clear, again. Balancing is not finished yet. The exact effects of the traits those three generals are not set into stone. Every thing can be changed and adjusted, based on results and feedback we get. We will evaluate your feedback, as we always evaluate feedback from players, and this feedback might lead to a change
    Knowing it's not final, I thought it would be worth to bring this point right now, else these generals will be considered junk, exactly like Marksmen currently are.

    I don't want to raise criticism or to make you lose time, just wanted to clarify that the current meta is this one, so giving us more generals that allows us to do what a veteran, an MMA, a log or a major general can do already is probably just a waste of time, or at least the might be useful for lower levels, though getting a major nowaday takes close to no time if you're in a guild.

    To even bring another point on the table, I was hoping that these generals would be something that gives you an hand to play some ridiculously unbalanced adventures like Treasure of Knowledge: Nusala could've done that, but after reading which offensive units there are, she can't .

    The new traits and ability of the generals, though, are a very interesting feature, so a huge thumbs up for these and for introducing a wider variety of generals to the game.

  3. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by BB_Alex View Post
    .....Those generals are basically a test case for a skill tree for generals. They will show us, what is technically feasible and what has to be improved in terms of representation. They also will show us, how such skills might impact the balancing......

    Have fun
    BB_Alex
    I'm jumping up and down and yelling YaY!!!!!....... YaY!!!!!!!!!!..... effin' YaY!!!!!!!!! I know it might take quite some time to develop the skill tree, but to hear that it's in the works like this........ YaY!!!!!! And in the meantime, we get a new general to play with. Thank you, thank you, thank you!! This is awesome.

  4. #54

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    What is the area of effect damage ability of Nusala?

  5. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by Faica110 View Post
    What is the area of effect damage ability of Nusala?
    Area of effect = splash damage. You will see the two used interchangeably in other parts of the game. For instance, read the Master of Martial Arts description.


    Quote Originally Posted by BB_Alex View Post
    The exact effects of the traits those three generals are not set into stone. Every thing can be changed and adjusted, based on results and feedback we get. We will evaluate your feedback, as we always evaluate feedback from players, and this feedback might lead to a change.
    Tick tock. Not much time... and we do not even get to start testing them until over a week from now.
    Last edited by Teetays; 27.10.16 at 06:38.

  6. #56
    Skyfall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faica110 View Post
    What is the area of effect damage ability of Nusala?
    In case someone needs a detailed explanation:

    Damage in this game is dealt on a per unit basis, not per group (regardless how it is represented in battle reports). Ie. a group of 100 recruits does not do 300 damage to the enemy group, instead first recruit does 30 damage to the first enemy unit of the group, if this kills the unit than second recruit does 30 damage to the second enemy unit etc.

    For units without splash damage ability that damage is dealt to the level of enemies HP and the rest of the damage is lost. Ie. if you are ever in a situation where your cannoneers attack guard dogs, each cannonneer will only deal 5 damage and the remainder is lost instead of being passed to the next unit. In a similar situation if your cannoneers wouldve had splash damage ability, first cannoneer would deal 5 damage to the first dog, 5 to the second etc. effectively killing up to 24 dogs in a single blow.

    The potential impact these generals have on units is not THAT great, but still significant.

    Also one interesting thing :

    Those generals are basically a test case for a skill tree for generals. They will show us, what is technically feasible and what has to be improved in terms of representation. They also will show us, how such skills might impact the balancing
    Considering that most of those skills are 'all or nothing' kind, if there is actual consideration for those to be added to regular generals in the skill trees, that automatically invalidates the point of existance of these elite 3 (because if ny of those skills can be added to major there really isnt much reason to use those carrying half the units major can, outside of maybe adventures that are already trivial).
    Last edited by Skyfall; 27.10.16 at 20:02.

  7. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by Perwyn View Post
    I'm jumping up and down and yelling YaY!!!!!....... YaY!!!!!!!!!!..... effin' YaY!!!!!!!!! I know it might take quite some time to develop the skill tree, but to hear that it's in the works like this........ YaY!!!!!! And in the meantime, we get a new general to play with. Thank you, thank you, thank you!! This is awesome.
    same

  8. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyfall View Post
    Considering that most of those skills are 'all or nothing' kind, if there is actual consideration for those to be added to regular generals in the skill trees, that automatically invalidates the point of existance of these elite 3 (because if ny of those skills can be added to major there really isnt much reason to use those carrying half the units major can, outside of maybe adventures that are already trivial).
    Or maybe those elite 3, available at no cost, are thought to be even weaker versions of what we might get after applying some skills to Majors and Veterans.

  9. #59
    Blue Byte Gamedesign Team BB_Alex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyfall View Post
    Considering that most of those skills are 'all or nothing' kind, if there is actual consideration for those to be added to regular generals in the skill trees, that automatically invalidates the point of existance of these elite 3 (because if ny of those skills can be added to major there really isnt much reason to use those carrying half the units major can, outside of maybe adventures that are already trivial).
    You missunderstood me completely.

    I was talking about testing out the technical feasibility, how to improve representation of such skills so people do understand it, and to evaluate the balancing impact of such skills. It's not about considering adding the exact same skills to all other generals. The skills used for Vargus, Anslem and Nusala are "traits". Traits should be unique, because it's an important part of their value. Those traits do represent the character of the general and are based on the original Champions of Anteria.

    I am a big fan of exact wording:
    Quote Originally Posted by BB_Alex View Post
    One additional note. The trait "Explosive Ammunition" for Nusala should have impact on "offense/offensive" units. Offensive units are Bowman, Longbowman, Crossbowman, Marksman and Armored Marksman. This won't make her so much better compared to Vargus and Anslem.
    I can understand you concerns about the possibility for other generals to recieve the same skills, we do use for those three. And I can ensure you, that's not our approach, we aim for the other direction. Making special generals even more unique. Those three will show us the limits we should stay within.

    Have fun
    BB_Alex
    Last edited by BB_Alex; 28.10.16 at 12:14.

  10. #60

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    The burning question for me is: will we be able to pick one at Christmas and purchase the other 2 for gems, or will we only be able to get them from the Christmas calendar? Two years is a heck of a long time to have to wait to be able to have all three. Or maybe one at Christmas, one at Easter? I understand that a decision might not have been made yet, or, as BB sometimes likes to do, you guys are gonna have some fun keeping us in suspense. =-)

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