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Thread: COA Vargus - Lord Dracul comparrison on Home Island

  1. #1

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    COA Vargus - Lord Dracul comparrison on Home Island

    I've seen several comments that the new COA generals might be better suited for <50 level players.
    I'd previously tested lord dracul against the home island sector 9 boss - wild mary and her 199 guard dogs.
    Lord dracul with 200 cavalry was able to take out all of the guard dogs and last 2 rounds agaist wild mary before losing.
    This is due his high HP of 999, and wild mary have an attack of 740-800. Both have first strike and splash damage.

    COA Vargus with 180 cavalry went down like a sack of potatoes, and left 19 of the guard dogs untouched.
    Vargus has the highest HP of the COA generals at 200, the other 2 have 150 each. Not only can they not withstand an attack from wild mary, they also cant take an attack from the guard dogs. The lowest damage Ive ever seen from them is 205, so Vargus still loses.

    I dont think the poor performance of Vargus compared to Lord Dracul is due to his stats. If you think about it, raising his HP to 2000 and troops to 220 would still result in a loss against wild mary and her guard dogs.

    I believe the poor result lies with the design of the bandits camps and bosses. Some were intended to require multiple attacks, it even says so in the battle preview. The final battle of sector 9 requires 2 generals attacking with each being able to carry 200 troops.

    My conclusion is that all the COA generals are a lousy choice for players <50, because the bandit camps and bosses were designed for multiple waves of 200.

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    Sounds like you are expecting a "end all" general. From what I see these are not meant to be the most powerful generals ever. The Master of Martial Arts broke the combat mechanics so much they had to redo the fairytale adventures, anything more powerful that would be nice for us, but terrible for balance. Yes, these three might not be the best for boss camps. Yes, these three are not a replacement for the Master of Martial Arts or Major. But there plenty of camps they will tear to pieces better than any other general in the game.

    Take Vargus to Island of Pirates. You can only use cavalry on one camp there. Now he allows you to go through them all, saving many poor recruits. I am sure there are plenty of other good examples that I am too lazy to point out. Horseback, probably. I agree that I have my doubts on the troop count, but by no means can you compare these three to Dracul, the worst general in the game. I think these will be a great Christmas gift to all level players.

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    No, Im not expecting these to be "end all" generals, nor the equivalent of the MMAs or Majors. I'm also not speculating on other good examples that some may be to lazy to point out.

    The only actual comparison data I had for the home island at a low level happens to be lord dracul, irregardless of anyones opinion of him that's all the actual data I have. It's not like I can reset the home island for multiple run thrus.

    The fact that the introduction of the MMA caused a disruption supports my conclusion regarding the design of the bandit camps and bosses.

    I certainly plan to try the COAs out on a variety of experience adventures this weekend and I hope the lack of troop count wont cripple them compared to other readily available low level generals.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darknessss View Post
    I've seen several comments that the new COA generals might be better suited for <50 level players.
    I'd previously tested lord dracul against the home island sector 9 boss - wild mary and her 199 guard dogs.
    Lord dracul with 200 cavalry was able to take out all of the guard dogs and last 2 rounds agaist wild mary before losing.
    This is due his high HP of 999, and wild mary have an attack of 740-800. Both have first strike and splash damage.

    COA Vargus with 180 cavalry went down like a sack of potatoes, and left 19 of the guard dogs untouched.
    Vargus has the highest HP of the COA generals at 200, the other 2 have 150 each. Not only can they not withstand an attack from wild mary, they also cant take an attack from the guard dogs. The lowest damage Ive ever seen from them is 205, so Vargus still loses.

    I dont think the poor performance of Vargus compared to Lord Dracul is due to his stats. If you think about it, raising his HP to 2000 and troops to 220 would still result in a loss against wild mary and her guard dogs.

    I believe the poor result lies with the design of the bandits camps and bosses. Some were intended to require multiple attacks, it even says so in the battle preview. The final battle of sector 9 requires 2 generals attacking with each being able to carry 200 troops.

    My conclusion is that all the COA generals are a lousy choice for players <50, because the bandit camps and bosses were designed for multiple waves of 200.
    You are using Vargus in the wrong way: don't use cavalry on that camp, use crossbowmen and soldiers instead: the benefit given by Vargus is that neither Wild Mary nor Guard Dogs will kill your offensive units, using cavalry with Vargus on such a camp is just the wrong choice to me.

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    The new generals are more difficult to use than the old ones.
    The old general are mostly different in how many units they could carry - and the newcommers has special own specialities.

    The 3 new generals has very special abilities beside ther own specialities and those abilities has to be considered in each setup - you can just replace an old general with one of the new ones - on some camps he will be stronger, and on other weaker.

    Will be hard to write guides using the new generals and their skils - with at least 4 setups for each camp

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    We need some sexy way to have filters on guides, kinda like shopping on Amazon. You can choose which adventure, then select which generals you have, whether you are using elite troops or standard, whether you want quick kills or fewer losses, whether you want to try blocks or not, whether you want more exp points or a fast run, etc. Then select your route camp by camp based on what filtered results come up and what you have available (or are willing to lose/remake). Then at the end you have a "customized" full adventure guide. If you can't live with that result, then back up and make alternate choices or adjust the filters.

    Did that make sense? It did in my head, but lots of dumb ideas make sense in my head.

  7. #7

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    cuando entro en el juego el teniente general (270) hizo cambiar las guias
    cuando entro en el juego el maestro de artes marciales tambien cambio las guias

    a estos generales nuevos no les veo mucho potencial en cambiar guias
    creo que es una exelente oportunidad para darle a estos generales habilidades que los hagan destacarce sobre los otros y que los combiertan en lideres de las guias

    lo peor que les puede pasar es que terminen como dracula que solo se usa para comprar recompenzas de aventuras



    when I entered the game Lt. Gen. (270) did change the guides
    when I go into the game the martial arts master also change the guides

    these new general I do not see them much potential to change guides
    I think it's an excellent opportunity to give these general skills that make destacarce over the other and that the rights become leaders of the guides

    the worst that can happen to end up as dracula only used to buy bounty of adventures

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    Quote Originally Posted by bri0sheje View Post
    You are using Vargus in the wrong way: don't use cavalry on that camp, use crossbowmen and soldiers instead: the benefit given by Vargus is that neither Wild Mary nor Guard Dogs will kill your offensive units, using cavalry with Vargus on such a camp is just the wrong choice to me.
    No, you did not wait until level 36 so that you could build crossbowmen to clear your island.
    I'm comparing apples to apples here and at around level 26 most are going to clear their main island.
    The players could have a lord dracul and could have one of the COAs, if they spend some gems maybe an MMA or a veteran.
    Yes on the test server I could cut down Mary and her dogs with a Major using crossbowmen and Elites, but thats not a valid comparison.

    Quote Originally Posted by fylla View Post
    The 3 new generals has very special abilities beside ther own specialities and those abilities has to be considered in each setup - you cant just replace an old general with one of the new ones - on some camps he will be stronger, and on other weaker.

    Will be hard to write guides using the new generals and their skils - with at least 4 setups for each camp
    Good point, I agree. In fact you will have 4 x each camp, 4x each with crossbows, 4x each with elites, 4x each with cannons, etc. as you level up.

    But based on my limited data, they appear to be a lousy choice below 50 due to the low troop count and the basic design of the camps that are encountered. Lots more testing is needed.

    Another consideration is how future players will even obtain them, hooray we get one for free. But how and at what level will others get them? Maybe like the gold tower, its a great gift but your not really supposed to get them until level 48.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darknessss View Post
    No, you did not wait until level 36 so that you could build crossbowmen to clear your island.
    I'm comparing apples to apples here and at around level 26 most are going to clear their main island.
    The players could have a lord dracul and could have one of the COAs, if they spend some gems maybe an MMA or a veteran.
    Yes on the test server I could cut down Mary and her dogs with a Major using crossbowmen and Elites, but thats not a valid comparison.
    No, you did NOT get my point.

    You need to consider further variables in every single situation: Vargus is just not what you need for that specific camp, and here is why:

    - He will -of course- benefit the fact that guard dogs won't attack weak units, but wild mary will be attacked first.
    - His splash damage will be dealt to Wild Mary instead of guard dogs.

    You would rather use Nusala for that specific camp, as she deals 1k-1.5k damage on the Guard dogs immediatly, which is exactly what you are looking for right now.

    You need to consider a wider range of cases, though: if you consider ALL the camps before the wild mary one, Vargus is more suitable, while Nusala is suitable as long as you use her every 2 hours like an MMA.

    It's just matter of choices: you can't say that dracula is better than Vargus because on the camp with Wild Mary + guard dogs Dracula is better: regardless the player level, even a lvl 26 player will benefit of Vargus on his main island, you need to take a wider range of camps to properly give the correct feedback.

    Moreover, once the island is done, you're done with Dracula, or Vargus may be more useful in some situations (In stealing from the rich, for example).

    Don't stick on a single camp, we are not meant to do this as far as I know.

  10. #10

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    No, you did not wait until level 36 so that you could build crossbowmen to clear your island.
    I want to remember that, without going on adventures prior, you clear your island around L32/33 or so, but the example still stands, you could use Soldiers and Longbowman too, obviously the ratio would change. Haven't updated the sim yet to mess around, but any of those 3 gens is leagues better than Dracul. Not that it would be that hard to be better than the worst general to date, just about including the BHG.

    I currently don't have an updated Sim with them, but chances are you would be able to 1 wave that camp with Vargus probably with XB but most definitely with K, but Dracul won't _ever_ be able to do that before the Dogs are dead.
    Although having 20 troops less stings, he will outperform Dracul probably on every single camp ever created....at least I don't even have a camp in mind, unlike I had with Master of Wheelchair or any of the 3 new Gens. Oh wait...those 3 or so traps where you can send Dracul with 1R and he will win due to his HP eventually is where Dracul will be able to save you some 10R

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