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Thread: New General Skill Tree

  1. #151

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    Quote Originally Posted by LosAngel View Post
    What wots is?
    Witch of the swamp

  2. #152

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    Quote Originally Posted by bri0sheje View Post
    To me:

    Round 3 = 130 * 1.3 (169)

    At least that would make sense to me, since it would properly explain the sense of that skill specifically.

    Anyway, not a big deal for instance, I just needed to have some rulesets, let's just implement them how we feel they are right, it won't take much time to edit them later (at least not to me), it's less than 500 lines of code to me for all the skillsets, and most of them are quite easy to implement, so..
    Well.. 130*1.3 is easy to implement, because you don't have to keep track of original value.
    If it was 130+30, then you have track the original value somewhere..
    Agreed not a big deal, but still...

    Also, If the effects were to compound... I'd be surprised, because some battles do last several rounds (not just for blocks)
    and compounded effect will make such battles much easier...
    May be BB wants that..
    May be BB didn't think as far , and after reading this, saying "shoot"
    May be BB doesn't want that... and is only letting us have a wishful thinking until they actually implement this on test server.

  3. #153

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    Also, If the effects were to compound... I'd be surprised, because some battles do last several rounds (not just for blocks)
    and compounded effect will make such battles much easier...
    Think I mentioned it on the live servers, but in the end, that compound bonus would mostly end up on the boss' face since most regular units will be dead by round 1 or 2, I don't know of many instance from the top of my head where they still stand after 3 rounds (excluding sacs of course). Steerman will get a hard face bashing lol
    Meaning to say, sure it'll make some blocks a lot faster but it isn't exactly a massive game changer like the MMA was back in the day. The bonus mostly benefits blocks imo and then some savings. Oasis Guardian a round earlier is better than later of course, Scarred Thief is moot.

  4. #154

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    So the sim is ready with latest updates (Except for Battle Frenzy, which is not on Test Server either).
    What battles do we want to sim today? Just let me know..
    (Post on this thread addressed to dandy/alice007 or send me message, again alice007 on Zeus server)

  5. #155

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    Quote Originally Posted by dandy View Post
    Well.. 130*1.3 is easy to implement, because you don't have to keep track of original value.
    If it was 130+30, then you have track the original value somewhere..
    Agreed not a big deal, but still...

    Also, If the effects were to compound... I'd be surprised, because some battles do last several rounds (not just for blocks)
    and compounded effect will make such battles much easier...
    May be BB wants that..
    May be BB didn't think as far , and after reading this, saying "shoot"
    May be BB doesn't want that... and is only letting us have a wishful thinking until they actually implement this on test server.
    Actually, as you pointed out a (long) while ago about Anslem... Most of the camps are either 1-wave or just 2-wave. I mean, the difference between losses is rather how much damage you take rather than how much damage you deal.

    I see Battle Frenzy as a potential bonus to benefit either in older adventures or against camps that are actually a pain to take down, either because they have high HP bosses (like the ones in aladdin), either they have a significant amount of units (red riding hood). In such cases, having several benefits on heavy and non-heavy units (suppose Battle Frenzy rank 3 + 10 damage bonus BSG + 10% bonus accuracy + 73 damage KN with splash damage) can really take down some camps in two waves or three.. and the advantage given each round would be significant, though most player armies just won't last THAT much.

    Anyway, my sim is ready too, but I run simulations on entire adventures rather than camps, or both if needed..

    I'm really curious about the ES bonus, if you actually think about it, it allows ES to deal splash damage, and allow you to use.. well. recruits as a wall.

    Maybe combining the ES bonus with Nusala can give some surprises.. having high HP units dealing high damage in normal init with splash damage can become an interesting feature for fairytales.

  6. #156
    Blue Byte Gamedesign Team BB_Vierauge's Avatar
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    Here is how these things are intended to work; please report any variations as bugs:
    Quote Originally Posted by dandy View Post
    1. When you say, General damage +10, do you mean both Min and Max damage are +10?
    Yes. If a skill does not specify minimum or maximum damage, then both will be increased by that amount.

    Quote Originally Posted by dandy View Post
    2. When a skill is applied to an Army, does it include the General itself?
    Yes, the general is also affected by all of his or her skills that say "this army".
    The answer by BB_Alex that some of you are referring to ("this army only means assigned units") was meant to convey that "this army" does not affect units that are assigned to other generals.

    Quote Originally Posted by dandy View Post
    3. Which brings us to third question.. How do different skills add up?
    Absolute bonuses are applied before relative ones. The relative bonuses are summed and applied at once instead of one after another.
    As an example, let's say a 120 Attack Damage general gets a +10 AD boost and two seperate +10% bonuses.
    The final AD value will be (120+10)*(1+0.1+0.1) = 156

    The time-reducing skills are an exception. They stack multiplicatively. A fully trained quartermaster (travel time reduced by 35%, 30% and 18%) will have his travel time reduced to 0.65*0.7*0.82 = 37.31%

    Quote Originally Posted by dandy View Post
    4.
    Does Last Strike of the general use its base skills? or the enhanced skills?
    The extra attack is supposed to apply all skills. It should be identical to the first attack with the exception of being last strike.

  7. #157

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    Quote Originally Posted by BB_Vierauge View Post
    Here is how these things are intended to work; please report any variations as bugs:

    Yes. If a skill does not specify minimum or maximum damage, then both will be increased by that amount.


    Yes, the general is also affected by all of his or her skills that say "this army".
    The answer by BB_Alex that some of you are referring to ("this army only means assigned units") was meant to convey that "this army" does not affect units that are assigned to other generals.


    Absolute bonuses are applied before relative ones. The relative bonuses are summed and applied at once instead of one after another.
    As an example, let's say a 120 Attack Damage general gets a +10 AD boost and two seperate +10% bonuses.
    The final AD value will be (120+10)*(1+0.1+0.1) = 156

    The time-reducing skills are an exception. They stack multiplicatively. A fully trained quartermaster (travel time reduced by 35%, 30% and 18%) will have his travel time reduced to 0.65*0.7*0.82 = 37.31%


    The extra attack is supposed to apply all skills. It should be identical to the first attack with the exception of being last strike.
    Ok, thanks, so all my implementations are correct, good to know.

    What kind of feedback are you expecting from this first iteration? are you looking for players looking deeply into numbers or do you just want to know how players feels about the implementations themselves?

  8. #158
    Blue Byte Gamedesign Team BB_Vierauge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bri0sheje View Post
    Ok, thanks, so all my implementations are correct, good to know.

    What kind of feedback are you expecting from this first iteration? are you looking for players looking deeply into numbers or do you just want to know how players feels about the implementations themselves?
    Both, really. The update is in a state of development where it is complete enough for you to critically review any aspect of it. Yet, we are far from considering anything final and are willing and have the time to change most of it.

    Both the initial reactions in this thread as well as the first mathematical analyses on the more recent pages are valuable to us and I have already taken plenty of notes.

  9. #159

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    Quote Originally Posted by BB_Vierauge View Post
    Both, really. The update is in a state of development where it is complete enough for you to critically review any aspect of it. Yet, we are far from considering anything final and are willing and have the time to change most of it.

    Both the initial reactions in this thread as well as the first mathematical analyses on the more recent pages are valuable to us and I have already taken plenty of notes.
    Mind to give us about.. Euh.. let's say a week?

    I'm planning to run deeper simulations on every single adventure (I've already implemented my own simulator to do such), but some of these simulations are actually heavy and will likely take a while to finish.

    Also, reporting the results is now harder, since every single combination of the skill system is different and every simulator was used to export results as plain text only, so we also need some time to actually make a sort of bitmask or something like that to build the skill tree on the report aswell.



    I mean.. How are we meant to report such a complex system in plain text? :P

    Anyway, to get to the core question: How much time are you expecting to give us until the very next iteration goes live? are we talking about days, weeks, or months? just to choose the proper simulation strategy to apply in the next days.

  10. #160

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    @BB / BB_Vierauge: Repost my questions, hope for answer!
    1. In "Lost City": do adventure-buff overwrite general skills or vice versa?
      Example: Waterbuff increases the accuracy of C to 100%, Master Planner "only" + 10% => 90%
      Guess: It counts the higher one = adventure-buff.
    2. How are percentage values rounded? affects: Home Field Advantage, Battle Frenzy, First Aid.
      Guess: "half round up" meaning: 0,5 and higher up, other down
    3. Do the skills also affect the demolition of the camps?
      Guess: yes
      affects many skills, especially: Confident Leader, Battle Frenzy, Lightning Slash
    4. How do Battle Frenzy affects the demolition of camps?
      a) bonus from fight counts for demolition and more bonus will accumulate
      b) bonus from fight counts for demolition but no more bonus will accumulate
      c) bonus from fight is reset but new bonus will accumulate
      d) Battle Frenzy dont affects the demolition of camps
    5. How is Battle Frenzy increased?
      Example: Major general with Battle Frenzy 3
      Round 1: 120 damage
      Round 2: 120 + 30% = 156 damage
      a) Round 3: 120 + (2*30%) = 192 damage
      b) Round 3: (120 + 30%) + 30% = 202,8 damage

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