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Thread: [Anniversary 2018] Balloon Conversion Balancing

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    Blue Byte Gamedesign Team BB_Alex's Avatar
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    [Anniversary 2018] Balloon Conversion Balancing

    Hi everyone.

    First I would like to say thank you for your feedback and your suggestions. And second I would like to mention, that all values here are subject to changes.

    The goal for this post is to provide the latest conversion balancing for balloons in the Anniversary Event 2018. We want it to be the topic of discussions and also use it to explain our balancing approach roughly. This should allow you to get the right values for your level range rather easy (without creating tons of new accounts here on test server) and plan accordingly.

    We will update this list here as soon as some of the values change internally, which also means the values do not have to match the current version deployed here on the test server, but will rather represent the current balancing iteration for the next update.



    The first balancing iteration contained numbers, which were not representing the value of the resource itself. This led to a huge difference between resources with a low value and those with high value, which made a decision kind of obsolete.

    The second balancing iteration contained numbers balanced around the real trade value of those resources. This led to an almost non-existent difference between the value required to obtain everything during the event. The downside of this iteration was, that it did not take the production capacity or the existing resource stock into account.

    The third balancing iteration and also the iteration which is shown in this list, has several additional balancing numbers. Right now we do consider three main numbers.

    1. production capacity for the duration of the event for the corresponding level ranges
    2. trade value of the resource
    3. resource stock for the corresponding level ranges

    Right now each of those numbers contributes to the final number with a share of 33,3% (which is basically the average out of those three), and we can adjust this contribution for each of those numbers.

    Btw. The output is balance around the amount of production steps required to produce the input resource.

    Another important information is duration of the event. The current plan for the duration of the Anniversary Event 2018 is 2 weeks, which should also allow you to plan accordingly. The duration is also subject to changes, of course.



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    Interesting. If I'm doing the math correctly, a level 6 Foundry with a snow buff will almost produce enough mortars to cover all 3 slots. My stock would go down about 144 mortars a day running it this way. That's pretty cool it it's correct. I can start with a few thousand in storage and still keep up. Unless you guys change it of course.

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    Blue Byte Gamedesign Team BB_Alex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perwyn View Post
    Interesting. If I'm doing the math correctly, a level 6 Foundry with a snow buff will almost produce enough mortars to cover all 3 slots. My stock would go down about 144 mortars a day running it this way. That's pretty cool it it's correct. I can start with a few thousand in storage and still keep up. Unless you guys change it of course.
    This sounds rather easy, which makes some concern appear from my side. I would like to push more into the direction of combining different resources instead of just using a single one.

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    Platin swords are hard to build.
    On the live server, I am producing 216 swords / 12h without bonuses (two buildings).

    To be able to finish the goal I will have to combine all resources.

    BTW: this is easy for LVL63+ They are having tons of resources. The lower level will have a problem because it is hard for them to gain resources such as Titan, granite etc. On the other hand, they have to use a low amount of resources to get a high number of balloons.
    Last edited by LosAngel; 01.08.18 at 14:33.

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    Blue Byte Gamedesign Team BB_Alex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LosAngel View Post
    Platin swords are hard to build.
    On the live server, I am producing 216 swords / 12h without bonuses (two buildings).

    To be able to finish the goal I will have to combine all resources.

    BTW: this is easy for LVL63+ They are having tons of resources. The lower level will have a problem because it is hard for them to gain resources such as Titan, granite etc. On the other hand, they have to use a low amount of resources to get a high number of balloons.
    This is intended. High level player should be encouraged to help lower levels to reach their goals, since it will directly impact the progress through the community goal. They would be quite efficient using their stored resources to boost lower levels including the opportunity to exchange those resources for more cake dough.

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    I'm not sure about the goal of the production values. Assuming the event aims to get rid of the overplusses of resources in storage and star menu, then this is not the right way to achieve that. If high level players need tons of high level resources, they won't get rid of the stored stuff (mostly lowlevel resources) but instead, have to increase their elite production to fulfill the tasks. So instead of reducing the the amounts we increase production for the event, leading to even bigger overplusses after the event from useless new production buildings. yay...

    I agree, one way is to help lowlevel players by sending them lowlevel resources, but the amounts they are transforming along with the really small number of these players is like a drop in the bucket for resource elimination.

    So in my eyes, we are going the wrong way by limiting the pool of resources for every level of players to the "highest 5" like I call them. Instead, with rising level, the pool should just increase, due to new resources available for the player. To achieve a substantial resource elimination and giving high level players a challenge even when they can work with high and low resources, the production amounts should scale with the level of the player.

    Therefor, I created a different approach, using a level-dependent multiplier for determining production input values

    Herein I show, how this multiplier was determined and how the production list changes (compare step 1 and 5) using this multiplier:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

    Step 1) Plotting the data from the official list in a table

    Step 2) Adding the coin values of the resources (Yellow marked) we can caluculate the costs for 1 baloon for every level, every ressource and every input and output amount

    Step 3) From the costs we calculate the "average costs per Baloon and Level" (blue) and plot them in the figure below for analysis

    Step 4) Creating two smooth curves for multipliers based on the blue curve

    Step 5) Now using one of these multipliers to create additional production input values for higher levels

    The multipliers are used in this way:
    Production input amount = ROUNDDOWN( Multiplier(Level-dependent) * Ballon output amount / resource coin value )


    This is just an example for how we can achieve a level-dependent input amount, so that higher players as well may use the resources, they really have as overplus. Also, making the input value being calculated from an production multiplier will result in almost steady coin values for the different resource input amounts each player level has.

    The multiplier itself can be easily arranged (higher/lower pitch, higher/lower start/end value) to achieve challenging production amounts for every level. the main advantages of using an multiplier instead of fix values are these:

    - lowlevel ressources can be applied to highlevel players with a level-dependent upscale in input amounts
    - real eliminiation for resource overplus in storage and star menu due to more freedom for resource choices
    - uniformity in cost/values of input-to-output for all available ressources per player level

    Without an extensive change like this, the event will not remove resources from the game, but may instead increase them in the long term

    Schmat
    Last edited by Schmat; 01.08.18 at 20:14.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BB_Alex View Post
    This sounds rather easy, which makes some concern appear from my side. I would like to push more into the direction of combining different resources instead of just using a single one.
    If you're going to adjust Mortars upward to force them out of all 3 slots, then you're going to need to adjust other elite items downward to make their use realistic.

    How many people have an excess of elite items in star menu? Except for Platinum ore I certainly don't. And if they don't: How many people are able to produce 600 woolen cloth an hour? Or 220 Battle Horse an hour? Or 90 Platinum swords an hour? How many people actually have a level 6 Foundry? Since mortars are not used as heavily as say cannons (several hundred vs several thousand needed), a lot of people I know took it to level 2 or 3 and left it there.

    I can understand your concern, but also consider this. When I told my wife that at our level we would have to use Plat swords, Arquebuses, Battle Horse, Mortars, etc her reaction was not a positive one. She may not even take part in the event because of the elite resources we'd have to sacrifice. How many other people are going to have a similar reaction? And how is raising the levels of Mortars used going to promote a more positive reaction?

    I think Schmat has a good point and a good suggestion. And I think forcing high level players to use only epic level resources is going to be pretty unpopular overall, especially at their current levels.

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    Woolen cloth is basically "free" to produce and I personally have well over one million of it. A lot of people also have a hundreds of thousands of Battle horses for example. I think the event assumes you are not starting from a scratch and you will use different type resources.

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    For the sake of ease let's call production time one hour and never mind the extra seconds going to and from a storehouse. Now let's take your one million free woolen cloth and play with the numbers...... 600 cloth per hour x 24 = 14,400 x 14 (2 weeks of event) = 201,600 x 3 (slots) = 604,800. Which is way less than a million.

    Hmm...... now THAT should also cause BB_Alex some concern since you could plug woolen cloth into all 3 slots and not worry about juggling production. You could almost walk away from the event and let it run on auto-pilot. Talk about too easy.

    At least I'll have to maintain putting snow buffs on the Foundry, make sure I've got enough Salt Peter and keep my Gunpowder production going. Not to mention all the Wheels and Mahogany Planks that go into Wagons which are needed to produce Mortars. Oh yeah, and the Iron Bars and Exotic Wood Logs that go into the Wheels. So I'd actually be using up a ton of resources to produce mortars to sacrifice for balloons while you're using up what????? Air!!!! Wool comes out of thin air!!!

    I'm not trying to bust your chops Mannerheim, just pointing out that there's no way to balance this that can eliminate anybody getting balloons made in a manner somebody else is going to see as too easy.

    The other point I want to stress is making high level players use only elite resources may cause some resentment in the ranks. I'm okay with it, I can afford it and I was willing to ramp up Mortar production to cover my part. But if the ratio of Mortars to balloons morphs to some absurd level that I can't possibly afford or even want to try to afford, while somebody like you with one million woolen cloth can just skate on thru......... you see my point?

    I understand and agree that this shouldn't be ridiculously easy, but at the same time it shouldn't be so hard/expensive that nobody is interested in doing it. Unless, like you, they managed to hoard one million woolen cloth, which I did not do since it had no value or use besides saddle making until MCC went live.
    Last edited by Perwyn; 02.08.18 at 03:18.

  10. #10
    Blue Byte Gamedesign Team BB_Alex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmat View Post
    I'm not sure about the goal of the production values. Assuming the event aims to get rid of the overplusses of resources in storage and star menu, then this is not the right way to achieve that. If high level players need tons of high level resources, they won't get rid of the stored stuff (mostly lowlevel resources) but instead, have to increase their elite production to fulfill the tasks. So instead of reducing the the amounts we increase production for the event, leading to even bigger overplusses after the event from useless new production buildings. yay...

    I agree, one way is to help lowlevel players by sending them lowlevel resources, but the amounts they are transforming along with the really small number of these players is like a drop in the bucket for resource elimination.

    So in my eyes, we are going the wrong way by limiting the pool of resources for every level of players to the "highest 5" like I call them. Instead, with rising level, the pool should just increase, due to new resources available for the player. To achieve a substantial resource elimination and giving high level players a challenge even when they can work with high and low resources, the production amounts should scale with the level of the player.

    Therefor, I created a different approach, using a level-dependent multiplier for determining production input values

    Herein I show, how this multiplier was determined and how the production list changes (compare step 1 and 5) using this multiplier:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

    Step 1) Plotting the data from the official list in a table

    Step 2) Adding the coin values of the resources (Yellow marked) we can caluculate the costs for 1 baloon for every level, every ressource and every input and output amount

    Step 3) From the costs we calculate the "average costs per Baloon and Level" (blue) and plot them in the figure below for analysis

    Step 4) Creating two smooth curves for multipliers based on the blue curve

    Step 5) Now using one of these multipliers to create additional production input values for higher levels

    The multipliers are used in this way:
    Production input amount = ROUNDDOWN( Multiplier(Level-dependent) * Ballon output amount / resource coin value )


    This is just an example for how we can achieve a level-dependent input amount, so that higher players as well may use the resources, they really have as overplus. Also, making the input value being calculated from an production multiplier will result in almost steady coin values for the different resource input amounts each player level has.

    The multiplier itself can be easily arranged (higher/lower pitch, higher/lower start/end value) to achieve challenging production amounts for every level. the main advantages of using an multiplier instead of fix values are these:

    - lowlevel ressources can be applied to highlevel players with a level-dependent upscale in input amounts
    - real eliminiation for resource overplus in storage and star menu due to more freedom for resource choices
    - uniformity in cost/values of input-to-output for all available ressources per player level

    Without an extensive change like this, the event will not remove resources from the game, but may instead increase them in the long term

    Schmat
    Creating a modifier for input based on level is rather difficult with the current system. It would require us to create around 60 production definitions for each resource.

    The only possible way would be to create a new additional mechanic just for that, which is also not an easy task and might be not possible until september, taking testing, balancing and bugfixing into account.

    Right, there is also the issue with the size of the selection menu, when all those productions can be selected in the building.

    Quote Originally Posted by Perwyn View Post
    If you're going to adjust Mortars upward to force them out of all 3 slots, then you're going to need to adjust other elite items downward to make their use realistic.

    How many people have an excess of elite items in star menu? Except for Platinum ore I certainly don't. And if they don't: How many people are able to produce 600 woolen cloth an hour? Or 220 Battle Horse an hour? Or 90 Platinum swords an hour? How many people actually have a level 6 Foundry? Since mortars are not used as heavily as say cannons (several hundred vs several thousand needed), a lot of people I know took it to level 2 or 3 and left it there.

    I can understand your concern, but also consider this. When I told my wife that at our level we would have to use Plat swords, Arquebuses, Battle Horse, Mortars, etc her reaction was not a positive one. She may not even take part in the event because of the elite resources we'd have to sacrifice. How many other people are going to have a similar reaction? And how is raising the levels of Mortars used going to promote a more positive reaction?

    I think Schmat has a good point and a good suggestion. And I think forcing high level players to use only epic level resources is going to be pretty unpopular overall, especially at their current levels.
    The amount of resource people own right now is already taken into account in those values. Also taking the time feft before the event starts into account you can produce quite a lot in preparation for the event. There is no need to do it during the event.

    If you do not prepare upfront, you might not be able to achieve all your personal donation quests during the event.
    Last edited by BB_Alex; 02.08.18 at 09:07.

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