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Thread: Damage calculation changed overnight?

  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by BB_Alex View Post
    One question, do you experience the issue only on the test server, or did you experience it on the live server, too?
    If this is a rounding-related issue, then I've seen some lately on live server - size of deposit may differ when following skills are affecting: Versed, Natural Copper/Gold Vein, Natural Born Digger .
    Why is [spoiler]spoiler-tag[/spoiler] turned off here in testserver forum?

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by BB_Alex View Post
    One question, do you experience the issue only on the test server, or did you experience it on the live server, too?
    I never tried on Live, but again on test server with A Giant Battle, hurricane and slippery ice. general boris arrived and mouseover showed 147 for maximum damage on mounted marksmen. i closed the tab and restarted again. nothing changed. then again closed the tab for half an hour and after restart the maximum damage shows 150!

    so, not only the 4th adventure is affected, the giant battle is affected too, perhaps also second and third adventure. and the issue appears not from (immediate) restart, but after about half an hour logout.

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by BB_Alex View Post
    One question, do you experience the issue only on the test server, or did you experience it on the live server, too?
    I'm sorry. It's to expensive for me on the Live to test this. Usually I don't have Slippery Ice active in the MCC adventures. On the other hand, I hadn't really had the time to simulate Hurricane for Unknown Regions, which could maybe be an option... However, if you sent me the adventure I'll give it a try

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by BB_Alex View Post
    One question, do you experience the issue only on the test server, or did you experience it on the live server, too?
    I did a test with Unknown Regions. Hurricane is active and slippery ice. the behavior on live server is the same as on test server. immidiatly after start the mounted marksmen had a max damage of 102, which results from (100 + 20) x 0,85. After a logout and restart, the damge is 105, which is 100 x 0,85 + 20.

    I made screenshots from test and live, if you need them, leave a reply, please.

    now i have to play this adventure with hurricane active and my defense units will hate me therefore :-)

  5. #15
    Blue Byte Gamedesign Team BB_Alex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by palindromo1 View Post
    I did a test with Unknown Regions. Hurricane is active and slippery ice. the behavior on live server is the same as on test server. immidiatly after start the mounted marksmen had a max damage of 102, which results from (100 + 20) x 0,85. After a logout and restart, the damge is 105, which is 100 x 0,85 + 20.

    I made screenshots from test and live, if you need them, leave a reply, please.

    now i have to play this adventure with hurricane active and my defense units will hate me therefore :-)
    Thank you for doing this, I appreciate it a lot.

    The reason I was asking is what we experienced during investigation. It seems there is an issue related to the calculation of de-buffs. While buffs are always applied on the base damage value, de-buffs are applied on the previously calculated damage value. This became more visible due to the changing order in which the buffs/de-buffs are shown, and this has impact on the calculated damage values.

    We did have the approach to have buffs and de-buffs always be applied to the basic damage value, so the order in which those are triggered or shown shouldn't have any impact on the final damage value.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by BB_Alex View Post

    We did have the approach to have buffs and de-buffs always be applied to the basic damage value, so the order in which those are triggered or shown shouldn't have any impact on the final damage value.
    I'm now wondering if I understand it correctly: Does this mean, the calculation for slippery ice is the issue here and the 105 damage is the expected value, while the 102 is wrong or the other way around (from palindromo1s example)? I guess, the 105 makes sense, since then all buffs/debuffs and skills (except battle frenzy) are applied to the base damage value.

    But thinking of my initial example of the mounted marksman in general boris with unstoppable charge, hurricane, slippery ice and specialized weapons, this would mean both values in my data sheet would be wrong (152 and 155). It would result in:
    100 + 3 + 50 + 20 - 15 + 5 = 163
    which is a lot more damage than before.

    Or should the slippery ice debuff simply be multiplied at 'the end'? Meaning:
    (100 + 3 + 50 + 20 + 5) * 0.85 = 151
    which is less than the currently observed values.

    Besides that, Battle Frenzy is an exception of all of this as it is applied on the calculated damage of the first round. So for every additional round 163 * 0.3 is added (assuming 3 points in battle frenzy).

  7. #17
    Blue Byte Gamedesign Team BB_Alex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graf_Euler View Post
    I'm now wondering if I understand it correctly: Does this mean, the calculation for slippery ice is the issue here and the 105 damage is the expected value, while the 102 is wrong or the other way around (from palindromo1s example)? I guess, the 105 makes sense, since then all buffs/debuffs and skills (except battle frenzy) are applied to the base damage value.

    But thinking of my initial example of the mounted marksman in general boris with unstoppable charge, hurricane, slippery ice and specialized weapons, this would mean both values in my data sheet would be wrong (152 and 155). It would result in:
    100 + 3 + 50 + 20 - 15 + 5 = 163
    which is a lot more damage than before.

    Or should the slippery ice debuff simply be multiplied at 'the end'? Meaning:
    (100 + 3 + 50 + 20 + 5) * 0.85 = 151
    which is less than the currently observed values.

    Besides that, Battle Frenzy is an exception of all of this as it is applied on the calculated damage of the first round. So for every additional round 163 * 0.3 is added (assuming 3 points in battle frenzy).
    Slippery Ice should be applied on the base damage, because we might have more than one single de-buff, which makes your first calculation the one we were actually aiming for. We now have to check, what impact changing it to the intended behavior would have. I am not even sure right now, if that's all there is to it, because some cases still do not make any sense yet. So we have to investigate further.

  8. #18

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    at this point with all the changes and different general types/buffs it would be nice if BB supplied a simulator. You cant really do most adventures without one or with a guide made by someone who used a simulator. If BB wants to keep this game active they should not be relying on player made simulators to keep players interested. they owe so much to some of the players who have shared simulators and guides in the past. This would help so much when we test things here as well

    The glory of his noble deeds is recorded in writing

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by BB_Alex View Post
    Slippery Ice should be applied on the base damage, because we might have more than one single de-buff, which makes your first calculation the one we were actually aiming for. We now have to check, what impact changing it to the intended behavior would have. I am not even sure right now, if that's all there is to it, because some cases still do not make any sense yet. So we have to investigate further.
    Thank you very much BB_Alex for the additional information. Really appreciate it! Looking forward for the entry in a change log

    Quote Originally Posted by Artillerist View Post
    at this point with all the changes and different general types/buffs it would be nice if BB supplied a simulator. You cant really do most adventures without one or with a guide made by someone who used a simulator. If BB wants to keep this game active they should not be relying on player made simulators to keep players interested. they owe so much to some of the players who have shared simulators and guides in the past. This would help so much when we test things here as well
    Sorry, this is completely off-topic here, since this is an issue in the game mechanics and would not be solved by a simulator provided by BB.
    Moreover, a simulator built by the community gives us an opportunity to contribute to our hobby. Thus it strengthens the community and also encourages us to use our heads once in a while. As long as BB provides us some insight in the battle mechanics, a community-built simulator is totally feasible.

    Anyway, let's not start a discussion about it here and let's focus on the current issue!

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